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Subject: RE: Data Mirror over dark fibre not using DMIP with Filers not clustered together.
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 08:11:09 -0800
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Thread-Topic: Data Mirror over dark fibre not using DMIP with Filers not clustered together.
thread-index: AccfAlf+mzadI8FCQbOb8w2BcOvrIQAPlNJWABVMBZAAAPUcMA==
From: "Jonathan Goldick" <jonathan.goldick@onstor.com>
To: "John Culp" <john.culp@onstor.com>,
	"Tim Gardner" <tim.gardner@onstor.com>,
	"dl-cstech" <dl-cstech@onstor.com>

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The only way to do this is to make the DR LUN(s) visible and owned by
the primary cluster.  It is unlikely that we would have a FC-based
mirroring problem at that distance since we can handle serious latency
in this layer, but there may be SAN/LUN discovery issues that we have
not seen before as this has never been attempted.  If we went this
route, the mirror target would not be usable by the DR cluster without
importing it in the event of a failure.  They would then have to create
new NFS/CIFS shares at that time and there would be no ability to resync
the mirror after the primary cluster came back.

=20

=20

=20

________________________________

From: John Culp=20
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 7:44 AM
To: Tim Gardner; dl-cstech
Subject: RE: Data Mirror over dark fibre not using DMIP with Filers not
clustered together.

=20

The data rate change is estimated currently at 15% - 20% per day.  While
that is a file number and not block number we shall see what the real
block change rate is soon.

=20

The customer is WANTING to use the FC because they do not want to use FP
ports to transfer data.  They spent the $$$ for the direct Fiber run and
just want to try and use it more than they are.  The idea is separation
of client access via the front end and replication / data volumes via
the back end.

=20

The thought is if we can DM between to volumes that are not in the same
VSVR via IP, is it possible to do it over the FC and if not how
difficult would that be.

=20

The customer knows we do not currently do this.  If this is simply just
not possible, then I can tell them that.

=20

John Culp=20

System Engineer=20
940-239-7489 Office=20
972-523-4287 Cell=20
john.culp@onstor.com=20

=20

=20

________________________________

From: Tim Gardner=20
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 11:39 PM
To: John Culp; dl-cstech
Subject: RE: Data Mirror over dark fibre not using DMIP with Filers not
clustered together.

Data Mirror is only supported between volumes in the same cluster.

More over, the volumes have to belong to the same virtual server.

=20

I don't know if we have any experience connecting a filer to storage=20

that is so far from the filer.

=20

Is their rate of change such that using DMIP is not practical?

=20

=20

________________________________

From: John Culp
Sent: Wed 12/13/2006 2:02 PM
To: dl-cstech
Subject: Data Mirror over dark fibre not using DMIP with Filers not
clustered together.

Current situation:

=20

current DMIP customer has primary and DR site on their campus
environment.  Primary site is a 2260HA, DR site is a single 2260.  DR
site is 1 mile away (it is a BIG Campus).  They are having current DMIP
issues.  The DR site is NOT clustered to the primary site.

=20

What they would LIKE to do

=20

Let me preface this first with, I know it is 5280 ft.  The customer
wants to separate replication traffic from user traffic.  This is
currently no being done because they are dedicating a single GiGE for
DMIP.  They WOULD LIKE to run Data Mirror over the dark fibre they have
directly between the primary and DR site.  They are currently doing this
with their block data in a synchronous solution on Xiotech.

=20

1. Can we use Data Mirror via FC to volumes not in the same Cluster?

2. If their FC environment is fast enough with low latency is there an
issue?

=20

If we could do this, it would be very helpful to the customer.

=20

John Culp=20

System Engineer
john.culp@onstor.com <mailto:john.culp@onstor.com>=20
office: 940-239-7489
cell: 972-523-4287
ONStor, Inc.
NAS for Enterprise
3311 Chalkstone Cove| Corinth, TX 76208
main: 940-239-7489 | fax: 940-239-7527=20

=20


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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>The only way to do this is to make =
the DR
LUN(s) visible and owned by the primary cluster. &nbsp;It is unlikely =
that we
would have a FC-based mirroring problem at that distance since we can =
handle
serious latency in this layer, but there may be SAN/LUN discovery issues =
that
we have not seen before as this has never been attempted.&nbsp; If we =
went this
route, the mirror target would not be usable by the DR cluster without
importing it in the event of a failure.&nbsp; They would then have to =
create
new NFS/CIFS shares at that time and there would be no ability to resync =
the
mirror after the primary cluster came back.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font =
size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>

<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabindex=3D-1>

</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font =
size=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> =
<st1:PersonName
w:st=3D"on">John Culp</st1:PersonName> <br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Thursday, December =
14, 2006
7:44 AM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Tim Gardner; =
dl-cstech<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: Data Mirror =
over dark
fibre not using DMIP with Filers not clustered =
together.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>The data rate change is estimated
currently at 15% - 20% per day.&nbsp; While that is a file number and =
not block
number we shall see what the real block change rate is =
soon.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>The customer is WANTING to use the =
FC because
they do not want to use FP ports to transfer data.&nbsp; They spent the =
$$$ for
the direct Fiber run and just want to try and use it more than they =
are.&nbsp;
The idea is separation of client access via the front end and =
replication /
data volumes via the back end.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>The thought is if we can DM between =
to
volumes that are not in the same VSVR via IP, is it possible to do it =
over the
FC and if not how difficult would that be.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>The customer knows we do not =
currently do
this.&nbsp; If this is simply just not possible, then I can tell them =
that.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<p><st1:PersonName w:st=3D"on"><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
 10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><!-- Converted from text/rtf format -->John =
Culp</span></font></st1:PersonName>
<o:p></o:p></p>

<p><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>System
Engineer</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>940-239-7489
Office</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>972-523-4287
Cell</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>john.culp@onstor.com</span><=
/font>
<o:p></o:p></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font =
size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>

<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabIndex=3D-1>

</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><font size=3D2 =
face=3DTahoma><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</spa=
n></font></b><font
size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> Tim
Gardner <br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, December =
13, 2006
11:39 PM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName =
w:st=3D"on">John
 Culp</st1:PersonName>; dl-cstech<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: Data Mirror =
over dark
fibre not using DMIP with Filers not clustered =
together.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<div id=3DidOWAReplyText15945>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Data Mirror is only supported =
between
volumes in the same cluster.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>More over, the volumes have to belong to the same =
virtual
server.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>I don't know if we have any experience connecting a =
filer to
storage </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>that is so far from the =
filer.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Is their rate of change such that using DMIP is not
practical?</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font =
size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>

<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabIndex=3D-1>

</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><font size=3D2 =
face=3DTahoma><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</spa=
n></font></b><font
size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> <st1:PersonName
w:st=3D"on">John Culp</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Wed 12/13/2006 2:02 =
PM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> dl-cstech<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Data Mirror over =
dark
fibre not using DMIP with Filers not clustered =
together.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Current situation:</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>current DMIP customer has primary and DR site on =
their
campus environment.&nbsp; Primary site is a 2260HA, DR site is a single
2260.&nbsp; DR site is 1 mile away (it is a BIG Campus).&nbsp; They are =
having
current DMIP issues.&nbsp; The DR site is NOT clustered to the primary =
site.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>What they would LIKE to =
do</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Let me preface this first with, I know it =
is&nbsp;5280
ft.&nbsp; The customer wants to separate replication traffic from user
traffic.&nbsp; This is currently no being done because they are =
dedicating a
single GiGE for DMIP.&nbsp; They WOULD LIKE to run Data Mirror over the =
dark
fibre they have directly between the primary and DR site.&nbsp; They are
currently doing this with their block data in a synchronous solution on
Xiotech.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>1. Can we use Data Mirror via FC to volumes not in =
the same
Cluster?</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>2. If their FC environment is fast enough with low =
latency
is there an issue?</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>If we could do this, it would be very helpful to the
customer.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><st1:PersonName w:st=3D"on"><b><font size=3D4 =
color=3Dblue
 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue;
 font-weight:bold'>John Culp</span></font></b></st1:PersonName><b><font =
size=3D4
color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Tahoma;
color:blue;font-weight:bold'> </span></font></b><b><font =
face=3DTahoma><span
style=3D'font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'><o:p></o:p></span></font></=
b></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D1 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>System Engineer<br>
</span></font></b><a href=3D"mailto:john.culp@onstor.com"><font size=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>john.culp@onstor.com</span>=
</font></a><br>
<font size=3D2 color=3Dgray face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Tahoma;color:gray'>office: 940-239-7489</span></font><br>
<font size=3D2 color=3Dgray face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Tahoma;color:gray'>cell: 972-523-4287</span></font><br>
<b><font color=3D"#0000cc" face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-family:Tahoma;
color:#0000CC;font-weight:bold'>ONStor, Inc.<br>
</span></font></b><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>NAS for <st1:City =
w:st=3D"on"><st1:place
 w:st=3D"on">Enterprise</st1:place></st1:City></span></font></b><br>
<font size=3D1 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Tahoma'>3311
Chalkstone Cove| <st1:City w:st=3D"on"><st1:place =
w:st=3D"on">Corinth</st1:place></st1:City>,
TX 76208<br>
main: 940-239-7489 | fax: 940-239-7527</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>

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